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T O P I C R E V I E WDesiring ShadowsIs that my Libra? I can't argue or fight if it isn't legitimate and I'm terrible at standing up for myself. I mean I will say my argument but if someone opposes it more than once I will most likely let their side win because I'm so passive that I. Just don't care enough to argue and cause a disruption and this is bad because today I almost lost $790 and they almost got away with it.. But isn't Mara your aggressive side? My Mars is Scorpio shouldn't I have willpower? Lol You don't have to answer those questions my main concern is besides the water signs which signs or placements do you think are passive in controversy?Tofu addictChart would be handy, but without that, Nepturne in connection to Mars or Mars in 12 or connected with lord 12 can make passivity, it needs more of course, but this is one aspect that is not inclined to throw its toys out of the pramSunAscendantYes it is your Libra. I ALWAYS say my grandma is this way and she's a Libra sun. Libras are too nice to tell people to shove it. Her Aries moon makes her really passive aggressive (emphasis on aggressive lol). But yes Libra personal planets seem like hell. I have no Libra in my chart which is why I have no problem not compromising. Some people can't be compromised with.SunAscendant quote:Originally posted by Tofu addict:Chart would be handy, but without that, Nepturne in connection to Mars or Mars in 12 or connected with lord 12 can make passivity, it needs more of course, but this is one aspect that is not inclined to throw its toys out of the pramI have Mars sextile Neptune and I can't compromise. Maybe it's my Taurus sun, but I just won't and can't compromise. I'm nor even fixed sign dominant. I have no Libra either PixieJaneOnce again, no. Libra is not some spineless jellyfish, even if many (though certainly far from all) feel pressured to restrain one's self for propriety's sake. Libra is the Judge: http://www.zodiacsignastrology.org/libra/libra-archetype/ quote:That’s the duty of the judge – to hear all parties out, no matter how long that takes. Only then is there time for judgment. This is also a very important trait of Libra – needing to know all alternatives before deciding, and taking that decision very seriously. It’s this hesitation that feeds the rumor of Libra being indecisive. It’s not indecision, but the very opposite: being very elaborate in order to reach the most solid decision(Speaking of which, 3 Libras in the legal profession here )You should read Linda Goodman's books on astrology as she enjoyed writing about how argumentative Libra can be (some of her examples in Love Signs are hilarious). Libra is not required to compromise, though many will seek to IF it's reasonable because they do want fairness for everyone involved, but this is an inclination, not some insane obsession. And at least a few have little to no interest in doing so. People can mistake their approach for weakness because they can only see strength of will in blustering, which is typically not Libra's style.And few people would back away from being cheated of hundreds of dollars. If you want to look to your chart from that then I'd look for unfavorable aspects. But I personally think there's something more going on there than your chart.Aries23DegreesDo you have Asc/Mars opp? Pluto/Asc opp or perhaps Mars/Saturn opp?I have Mars in Libra/Mars opp Asc/Pluto opp Asc(very wide orb) and Mars/Saturn midpoint on Pluto and opp the Asc.Standing up for myself is an up/down situation. Sometimes I can, sometimes my heart beats incredibly fast and i feel paralysed to.Mars opp aspects. Mars in Libra or 7th house placements that opp Asc can have this effect of having one project aggressive tendencies on others.YanmorgI dated someone like this and they had Mars in Taurus in the 12th along with Venus in Aries retrograde.teaselI used to be that way, unless really pushed. I got over it, when I realized that people expected it from me, no matter how badly they treated me. They didn't care how they were affecting me, only how others were affecting them. I have Moon conjunct Venus, and my Aries Sun is conjunct Mercury/Ceres/Chiron. NineWeak Mars.moongazeI have a Taurus Mars in the 1st house. I can be very passive towards strangers and even friends at times, but I can also blow up a firestorm once someone sets me off like a red rag to a bull. Kannon McAfee quote:Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:I can't argue or fight if it isn't legitimate ...A good thing. quote:... and I'm terrible at standing up for myself. I mean I will say my argument but if someone opposes it more than once I will most likely let their side win because I'm so passive ...Also not necessarily a bad thing.Venusian people often want to keep things even and smooth. We don't like activating adrenaline for little or no reason. The typical Libran debater or justice fighter is male more often (who are more prone to the extremes of all archetypes), and generally prefers it to be in an arena of well defined rules in for sport in social company. I've seen such people fold like like hankies when there's the chance of serious loss of face. quote:You don't have to answer those questions my main concern is besides the water signs which signs or placements do you think are passive in controversy?Typically Librans (especially with Gemini influence) don't mind debate for the sport of exchanging ideas, playing devil's advocate, doing 'justice speak', but having to jump into a real fight is a different matter. Because you have Mars trine Saturn and Venus parallel Saturn in your birth chart, there are tendencies for restraint to make sure it is worthwhile. I don't think you have any deficiency of assertiveness if you prevented the loss of that much money when you needed to stand up for yourself. Typically Taureans and strongly Venusian types, Lunar types, those that show people-pleasing or peace-making tendencies (or those with Mars restrained or hindered by Saturn, etc) are the ones who aren't as interested in fighting or eager to argue. That is more the territory of fire signs or those with strongly fiery planetary signatures (Sun, Mars, Jupiter).------------------The Declinations Guy: precise modern scientific astrology> Expert birth chart rectification> Rising Sign Descriptions♈ ♉ ♊ ♋ ♌ ♍ ♎ ♏ ♐ ♑ ♒ ♓diamondbabyMars in Pisces, Mars in the 12th house, Mars/Neptune aspects come to my mindPixieJaneOne time my fridge went on the blink, only barely working, so I put most everything in an ice chest and called a repairman. There was a red flag when he showed up but I still gave him some space, refusing to hover over his shoulder, as he looked, and then he told me there was a coolant leak.The smell overwhelmed me, and it had not been there before. Furthermore, there was now a sticky substance over the top shelf that had not been there before, and was not on the food I took out. The man, who even then was showing me an expensive fridge (and I'd have to pay him to install it) on his phone, but I firmly--and coldly--told him to get out. I did not justify myself, nor did I see this from his point of view. He was scamming me and therefore I cared nothing for what he had to say for himself. The only thing I felt bad for was for giving him the benefit of a doubt and not setting it up so I could prove his vandalism in court (as a result I did have to pay for him showing up, which I consider a fine for my stupidity of assuming the best of him, but I left a scathing review of him--all calmly stated with no obscenities, mind you--on a popular review site, the kind of review I wish someone had left for me so that I could've been prepared for his actions, assuming I gave him a chance at all). When the next repairman came (who confirmed that the cut and leak was recent) I DID hover over his shoulder, though I was as polite as I could be. I called him sir, sympathized with his arthritis, and even helped him move the fridge. He complimented me on my manners. Nevertheless, I was keeping a close eye on him and what he did as I was not going to be burned again. That turned out differently and I liked the new fridge. That all seems pretty Libra to me. It's not normal for us (including me) to cuss up a storm and yell profanities with spittle flying out of our lips, but disdaining that kind of crude blustering and Jerry Springer behavior doesn't mean that you can walk all over us, like that one repairman found, as have many others. Though some can point to my Sag stellium for making a difference, I don't know of any other Librans (at least not personally) who are easy to walk over...I do know one who likes to play mind games to try to justify herself more, but I blame that more on her her Scorpio than her Libra. PixieJaneBack in school I was more assertive than my BFF born 3 days later (thus a Scorpio instead of a Libra), and though she was picked on and intimidated, most girls didn't dare do that to me (they'd shun me, but it was a very bad mistake to menace me, one most never made more than once) as they did the Scorpio (and they mostly left her alone when I was living in the area). One of the few girls who did give me a hard time was an astro-twin born 8 hours after me, IIRC, but she was more sarcastic (and I only had one class with her) so I didn't actually feel threatened and thus tolerated it (and verbally gave back what I got). The exchange of insults (which were not crude obscenities) could even be fun at times. She and I were so different that it was a shock we shared the same birthday as it did not seem we could be more different...yet one thing we shared is that we were both unafraid to be assertive, and we could express disapproval. Heh, when I was staying at a flophouse at age 19, I endured an old Libra male who got outraged so easy and I took to trolling him for the laughs. That would be like pretending to be dumber as I was and making him think I was going to blow up the microwave we shared in the kitchen available to all residents, or when he sneered at some punk rock on the common room TV and demand it changed I'd say, "Why? It's so much more exciting than boring old Chopin!" It was just so easy. (I want to stress that I was 19 at the time, and I didn't do that to other residents who, unlike that old Libra man, made an effort to get along with me. Indeed, I felt bad for accidentally offending an out of work chef when I put some ketchup on the fries he made us, and though I thought he was silly for taking offense I did sincerely apologize and expressed how much I loved his cooking.)SagicalThe father of my youngest has mars conj Neptune and Jupiter. He doesn't care about anything and extremely passive aggressive.... goes along with what you say and then blammo....Empty SpacesEdit Gemini30I have a Libra Moon/ASC.It does make me a pushover and I don't like that about my personality. I've gotten better as I've gotten older but I laud the people who always FIGHT back, no matter what. RandallJust...be...you.Yanmorg quote:Originally posted by Randall:Just...be...you.PixieJaneJust be you...as long as it's socially approved and can be easily labelled. We as a society don't like depth, complexity, and people who violate even the trivial expectations we put upon them.PiperDayI’m exactly as you described. I think it’s the lack of fire energy in my chart, plus my progressed chart has Venus and Mercury in Libra. I also have Moon conjunct Venus.It’s very difficult for me to stand up for myself. I hate confrontation, I hate saying “no” and disappointing people – if I see that a decision I’ve made disappoints someone, I’ll overturn it because conflict makes me THAT uncomfortable. MelinnI have a male friend with Mars conj Neptune. Venus in libra. I have never met such an agreable man in my life! He never loses his temper. And I asked him if he ever gets angry with people or closed ones. He said "no I don't get angry, I just get very disappointed with them". He says he never raises his voice nor get mad. All this could have made him a bit spineless. But he is saved by his sun and mercury in Leo. Mercury square Pluto. So even if he is agreable, he is not a pushover.
But isn't Mara your aggressive side? My Mars is Scorpio shouldn't I have willpower? Lol
You don't have to answer those questions my main concern is besides the water signs which signs or placements do you think are passive in controversy?
quote:Originally posted by Tofu addict:Chart would be handy, but without that, Nepturne in connection to Mars or Mars in 12 or connected with lord 12 can make passivity, it needs more of course, but this is one aspect that is not inclined to throw its toys out of the pram
I have Mars sextile Neptune and I can't compromise. Maybe it's my Taurus sun, but I just won't and can't compromise. I'm nor even fixed sign dominant. I have no Libra either
quote:That’s the duty of the judge – to hear all parties out, no matter how long that takes. Only then is there time for judgment. This is also a very important trait of Libra – needing to know all alternatives before deciding, and taking that decision very seriously. It’s this hesitation that feeds the rumor of Libra being indecisive. It’s not indecision, but the very opposite: being very elaborate in order to reach the most solid decision
(Speaking of which, 3 Libras in the legal profession here )
You should read Linda Goodman's books on astrology as she enjoyed writing about how argumentative Libra can be (some of her examples in Love Signs are hilarious).
Libra is not required to compromise, though many will seek to IF it's reasonable because they do want fairness for everyone involved, but this is an inclination, not some insane obsession. And at least a few have little to no interest in doing so. People can mistake their approach for weakness because they can only see strength of will in blustering, which is typically not Libra's style.
And few people would back away from being cheated of hundreds of dollars. If you want to look to your chart from that then I'd look for unfavorable aspects. But I personally think there's something more going on there than your chart.
I have Mars in Libra/Mars opp Asc/Pluto opp Asc(very wide orb) and Mars/Saturn midpoint on Pluto and opp the Asc.
Standing up for myself is an up/down situation. Sometimes I can, sometimes my heart beats incredibly fast and i feel paralysed to.
Mars opp aspects. Mars in Libra or 7th house placements that opp Asc can have this effect of having one project aggressive tendencies on others.
I have Moon conjunct Venus, and my Aries Sun is conjunct Mercury/Ceres/Chiron.
quote:Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:I can't argue or fight if it isn't legitimate ...
A good thing.
quote:... and I'm terrible at standing up for myself. I mean I will say my argument but if someone opposes it more than once I will most likely let their side win because I'm so passive ...
Also not necessarily a bad thing.
Venusian people often want to keep things even and smooth. We don't like activating adrenaline for little or no reason. The typical Libran debater or justice fighter is male more often (who are more prone to the extremes of all archetypes), and generally prefers it to be in an arena of well defined rules in for sport in social company. I've seen such people fold like like hankies when there's the chance of serious loss of face.
quote:You don't have to answer those questions my main concern is besides the water signs which signs or placements do you think are passive in controversy?
Typically Librans (especially with Gemini influence) don't mind debate for the sport of exchanging ideas, playing devil's advocate, doing 'justice speak', but having to jump into a real fight is a different matter. Because you have Mars trine Saturn and Venus parallel Saturn in your birth chart, there are tendencies for restraint to make sure it is worthwhile.
I don't think you have any deficiency of assertiveness if you prevented the loss of that much money when you needed to stand up for yourself.
Typically Taureans and strongly Venusian types, Lunar types, those that show people-pleasing or peace-making tendencies (or those with Mars restrained or hindered by Saturn, etc) are the ones who aren't as interested in fighting or eager to argue. That is more the territory of fire signs or those with strongly fiery planetary signatures (Sun, Mars, Jupiter).
------------------The Declinations Guy: precise modern scientific astrology> Expert birth chart rectification> Rising Sign Descriptions♈ ♉ ♊ ♋ ♌ ♍ ♎ ♏ ♐ ♑ ♒ ♓
The smell overwhelmed me, and it had not been there before. Furthermore, there was now a sticky substance over the top shelf that had not been there before, and was not on the food I took out. The man, who even then was showing me an expensive fridge (and I'd have to pay him to install it) on his phone, but I firmly--and coldly--told him to get out. I did not justify myself, nor did I see this from his point of view. He was scamming me and therefore I cared nothing for what he had to say for himself. The only thing I felt bad for was for giving him the benefit of a doubt and not setting it up so I could prove his vandalism in court (as a result I did have to pay for him showing up, which I consider a fine for my stupidity of assuming the best of him, but I left a scathing review of him--all calmly stated with no obscenities, mind you--on a popular review site, the kind of review I wish someone had left for me so that I could've been prepared for his actions, assuming I gave him a chance at all).
When the next repairman came (who confirmed that the cut and leak was recent) I DID hover over his shoulder, though I was as polite as I could be. I called him sir, sympathized with his arthritis, and even helped him move the fridge. He complimented me on my manners. Nevertheless, I was keeping a close eye on him and what he did as I was not going to be burned again. That turned out differently and I liked the new fridge.
That all seems pretty Libra to me. It's not normal for us (including me) to cuss up a storm and yell profanities with spittle flying out of our lips, but disdaining that kind of crude blustering and Jerry Springer behavior doesn't mean that you can walk all over us, like that one repairman found, as have many others. Though some can point to my Sag stellium for making a difference, I don't know of any other Librans (at least not personally) who are easy to walk over...I do know one who likes to play mind games to try to justify herself more, but I blame that more on her her Scorpio than her Libra.
Heh, when I was staying at a flophouse at age 19, I endured an old Libra male who got outraged so easy and I took to trolling him for the laughs. That would be like pretending to be dumber as I was and making him think I was going to blow up the microwave we shared in the kitchen available to all residents, or when he sneered at some punk rock on the common room TV and demand it changed I'd say, "Why? It's so much more exciting than boring old Chopin!" It was just so easy. (I want to stress that I was 19 at the time, and I didn't do that to other residents who, unlike that old Libra man, made an effort to get along with me. Indeed, I felt bad for accidentally offending an out of work chef when I put some ketchup on the fries he made us, and though I thought he was silly for taking offense I did sincerely apologize and expressed how much I loved his cooking.)
It does make me a pushover and I don't like that about my personality. I've gotten better as I've gotten older but I laud the people who always FIGHT back, no matter what.
quote:Originally posted by Randall:Just...be...you.
It’s very difficult for me to stand up for myself. I hate confrontation, I hate saying “no” and disappointing people – if I see that a decision I’ve made disappoints someone, I’ll overturn it because conflict makes me THAT uncomfortable.
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